Gay to Straight

Am interested in having a discussion about this.

My opinion is that as this is a Gay fetish website having characters who become straight as a main focus is not the purpose nor focus of this site.

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I hear you, and I am uncomfortable with this issue myself.

I probably shouldn’t allow this, but then I’d have to add a clear rule for that.

The good thing about the story is that it started this discussion. The bad thing is the way this discussion took after a while…

And all this while I’m really busy with moving the site onto its new server…

No luck on timimg. Hehe

I do agree that “fuck you” … “no, fuck you” isn’t really useful.

Nor I think is the morality clause some try to make it.

To me its about theme. This is a gay site focused on male to male sex where some sort of mind control in a broad way occurs. To have people become straight goes against that. Especially when they were gay to begin with.

So im all for banning gay to straight. I dont think it fits here.

But i also want to here others opinionsin a none “fuck you” … “no, fuck you” manner.

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While I agree that it shouldn’t be a main theme of any story, I don’t think we should ban the concept altogether. If we did, I wouldn’t have been able to publish Chapter 11 of Web of Trust, for example.

I can also see someone using that as a series opener, where the villain is an unethical hypnotist (or whatever) who’s converting gay people to straight people, but then is later conditioned using the same process to become gay and think he should be converting straight guys to gay guys.

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You make a good point @RobinHood70 a very good point. One i agree with. An ebent likrhat as a stepping stone point in a story should be fine, as long as its not the end goal. (Whoch, i wpuld add does not need to be in that story if its a series.)

For me its the same of there is straight sex. Im fine with it at the start, especially if it’s to show how masculine and straight the character is. But it shouldn’t be a focus.

That said, I do think if at the very end the gay character becomes straight with no other point of continuation or anything like that, he is just now straight, I think that there’s an issue.

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@RobinHood70 This sounds hot. Lol

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Feel free to disregard my opinion since I’m obviously speaking from a different perspective, but I really don’t think stories on this site should be analyzed over whether or not they’re morally questionable. They all are, for obvious reasons. And when it comes to that story, I think we should disregard whether or not it’s bad to change someone from gay to straight. Literally everything on this site is “bad.” I think the question is, “Does it belong on this website?”

In my opinion - and I only speak for myself - I think it’s okay as long as part of a story, but not ok as the entire story. If it has straight sex in it, for example, but the story is, overall, a gay story, that’s fine. However, if the story is only about straight sex, or only about gay-to-straight, that doesn’t fit here. www.mcstories.com can host that.

P.S. Someone get that guy a beta reader.

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@firesix has a very good point.

Gay men (including me) tend to be quite sensitive about this issue because of the history of people trying to ‘cure’ homosexuality and all that grieve and pain this caused, especially the countless young men who took their own life because of that.

That’s actually the only reason why I’m a bit conflicted. If it weren’t for that issue, I would allow this theme if there’s still a clear focus on a gay theme in the story.

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I quite agree. Gay to straight or straight sex as PART of a story is fine. Gay to straight as the emd result is not okay in my thought.

Amd im pretty sure gay to straight as the end rrsult is the point of said story. So i don’t thibk it fits.

I also firmly agree with @firesix on lets not look on morality of hnosis and focus on the theme, the purpose, the focus of this site.

Which is NOT to turn gay men straight.

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Wait, @Heru_Kane, you said “said story”. Are you referring to a specific story? If so, which one? I’m a very slow reader, so I don’t normally read the new stories in the feed unless something catches my attention, and at least at a glance, none of the current ones jumped out at me based just on their descriptions.

@RobinHood70 Its Watch Where You’re Looking by Rozza22365.

It has gay to straight and sparked the issue. This conversation.

Oh as a note he is always super defended in the same exact way by the Ryder guy. Which kimd of amuses me to be honest.

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I could see gay-to-straight as some kind of punishment for a secondary character who has an undesirable attitude. In otherwords, I’m ok with gay-to-straight being portrayed a as a negative action.

I was forgetting I have my story list filtered, so I couldn’t see it. Oops! :slight_smile:

Having now read the comments on that story, I would say that conceptually, gay to straight is the same as straight to gay from the story perspective. The difference between them is that, as mentioned in the thread, one of them has a history of being attempted in reality, with extremely damaging results. It’s therefore a lot touchier of a subject.

There are also a sub-group of gay guys who enjoy the idea of being belittled or used by straight guys who enjoy using them that way. It’s debatable whether this is homoerotic or homophobic for the so-called straight guy, but whatever you want to look at it as, there are guys out there who get off on both sides of it. This story didn’t quite go in that direction, but it’s something to be considered. Would we be unfairly alienating gay guys who get off on being “less than” straight guys?

Having said all that, however, I would be extremely concerned that if we leave the door wide open, we could get flooded by a few prolific anti-gay writers who are submitting stories entirely for homophobic reasons with no thought of the desires of the site’s readers beyond deliberately making them uncomfortable. In that way, it’s really no different than homophobes yelling slurs at gay people entirely without their consent.

So, as I said way up near the beginning of this thread, I think the solution is not to put a blanket ban on the topic, but any story where the main component of it is gay-to-straight should probably either be disallowed, to avoid homophobic backlash, or an opt-in thing in people’s feeds. Perhaps it could be as simple as making gay-to-straight a category of its own, then setting the default category filtering to filter it out rather than including everything. I don’t know if that’s possible, but it’s certainly quite close to working within the existing system.

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I think they should continue to be allowed. After all at a basic level it’s the same concept as a straight to gay story. Both stories can have a heaven or hell plot, either the person being transformed likes it/consents to it, or doesn’t like it or was unwillingly or unknowingly changed. Just because in the real normal world people have hurt people with conversion therapy in one direction of the spectrum doesn’t seem a reason to ban it. After all mind control and other topics usually lack consent and would be considered just as abusive and harmful outside of the land of fantasy. Slavery is a terrible thing in the real world, but often the fuel of fantasies, the author is not purporting conversion therapy in the real world, so why is a story about turning a gay person straight less allowed than turning a straight person gay?

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I think the answer of this is a gay website is a good enough answer. Being straight is not gay.

I think whoever wrote it is despicable and the subject should be banned outright. The fact that real life conversion therapy exists should be enough, but also like. It’s a fucking gay fetish website. For gay people. Will gay erotica. Why attack your goddamn audience?

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I don’t think that such stories have a place here. Allowing them is the thin edge of the wedge - as others have said, this may encourage a handful of homophobic twits to submit anti-gay propaganda/content by dressing it up as satire or a gay-to-straight fetish. I’ve seen other websites invaded and ruined by bigots using this tactic.

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So i actually wanted to start a similar discussion a week or two ago but never got to it. I said it in the comments, but i found the particular story that sparked this less bad than some of the other stories put out under the “gay to straight” tag. I actually read it as kind of a satire. But maybe i was imagining things.

I find some of the other stories written by Rozza more problematic, with straight guys going out of their way to turn gay guys and tying masculinity to straightness. Also, if i’m remembering correctly, use of homophobic slurs that make me much more uncomfortable.

And then there are Orrin’s two most recent stories, which are…oof. One is just labeled “straight” and the other it’s not clear if the guy was ever gay or just became MORE straight.

However, while my general opinion is that they should not be on this site, i’m not sure where else they could be posted. If they were posted on a straight mc site then it would be even worse, moving the uncomfortable subject to text. They’d need to be posted to a joint site. At least here the queer guys who like them can find them without worrying about that nest of snakes.

This was kind of long and rambling. Any thoughts from anyone?

Thank you all for your input and opinion! I really value all of them.

For me, banning is something I really don’t like to do. If it were me, I would ban as little as possible, because it’s my firm believe that it doesn’t help to ban ideas and fantasies - they will be imagined no matter if you ban them or not.

What I can do is to help people filtering out things they don’t want to read, because they think it’s offensive or they’re just turned off by them.

I recently added the category filter, but that doesn’t help in that case. I cannot add a category for each of these things, especially since there is just one category you can set in a story.

I might consider adding a filter for tags, though. That would require quite some effort on my part, but if you think it’s worth it, I’ll do it. I don’t get the feeling that the category filter gets used a lot, but that might be caused by the fact, that it’s too unspecific.

Let me know what you think!

Another thing: If there’s blatant homophobic content, I will not approve it. Each story has to be approved by our staff or myself, and maybe I have been a bit too forgiving on that (if so, please notify me of stories you think unsuitable). There is not and will never be room for any kind of homophobia, blatant racism or other offensive material here, despite my liberal stance about fantasies.