Gay to Straight

So when are you removing the homophobia tag and all stories pertaining homophobia? And also how do you plan on retroactively tagging these sensitive topics for any and all of the archived stories?

I don’t think you are thinking this decision through enough and with the example you listed after the fact pretty much makes it so that gay to straight is banned anyways let’s just be honest here.

EDIT: Also my post @JDz0J

A story can be about homophobia, even though the author is not homophobic.

Actually, I’ve made an example of such a story in the very posting you were answering to.

Most stories are tagged properly already. If you come across a story which is not properly tagged, you are free to correct that.

About your last paragraph: I think you just don’t understand that there’s a difference between a story about homophobia or about a person who hates gays and a story which is clearly conveying a homophobic message itself. So, no, “gay to straight” is not banned anyway.

By your example the person converting people would need to feel remorse or regret for their actions. So unless every antagonist of such a story or author that writes about these types of subjects makes it evident that homophobia is expressly a NEGATIVE thing then you are saying that you will not allow it. It must not in any way condone homophobia right? But simply writing about homophobia in a sexual context makes it more appealing and thus promotes it even if the author would vehemently deny their own homophobia and wish it complete obliteration. You cannot discern their intentions from their story so if you are willing to be so heavy handed in your assessment then what stops that from being a problem for you? You will never be able to know what another person is intending on here or what message will end up being the end result of any writing so why not ban anything potentially negative because it has the chance to be abused.

Regardless you are the site owner you get the last word we don’t have the same powers of censorship that you have. So yeah. You win either way might is always right at the end of the day.

EDIT REPLY TO @JDz0J:

Wait how many anonymous stories are there on this site again? Oh wait how many get posted to nifty and a number of other erotic sites each day anonymously and you sit there and get off to them don’t you? Only use anonymity against people when it suits you. Just list us as unanonymous, I wouldn’t care one fucking bit but I don’t wan to sign up to this site. Oh by the way " You have reached the reply limit for this topic

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So I can’t even post what I want to without editing an older post because I’m anon further discouraging anonymous discussion. That’s funny funny funny while you go ahead and mock further.

You sound bitter, even there is clearly no reason to be.

I’ve already written, that I am quite liberal, and that it’s really not that easy to write a story that I will ban (but don’t try me on that please :))

But one person in this very thread wrote: “this may encourage a handful of homophobic twits to submit anti-gay propaganda/content by dressing it up as satire or a gay-to-straight fetish”

I understand that and that’s something I most certainly don’t want anywhere near me and this site. So I will try to read all stories with that in mind, and if I find a hint of that purpose in a story, I will not allow it. But I will always take the track history of each author into consideration as well. Sometimes satire is just satire and not anti-gay propaganda.

And for that I also need your help. If I miss an aspect (as a non-native speaker, it’s always a bit more difficult to get the more subtle subtexts), I’d appreciate if you point that out to me.

How do you plan to resolve disputes between readers and authors surrounding this subject in the future?

You may have a built report with the authors you trust and you can vouch for their “inner feelings” but the rest of us cannot. So simply because you believe one author’s work is acceptable and because you “know” them you’re willing to give them more of a pass due partly to their track records. Is this a little like what happened with comedian Kevin Hart: In Hart’s 2010 comedy special Seriously Funny , he did a bit that had him saying that his “biggest fear” was his son “growing up and being gay.” He said, “Keep in mind, I’m not homophobic. I have nothing against gay people. Be happy. Do what you want to do. But me, as a heterosexual male, if I can prevent my son from being gay, I will.” Nevermind the tweets like, “Yo if my son comes home & try’s 2 play with my daughters doll house I’m going 2 break it over his head & say n my voice “stop that’s gay””

People like this comedian are given public passes all the time because of their previously “clean track records” so why should your judgment hold any more weight other than you’re the admin and you get the final word. Also stop being passive aggressive, it’s obvious. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Also my post @JDz0J

Even though this is drifting off the topic a bit, I’d like to react on that comedian example. I just read about this in some context I can’t remember just a couple of days ago. And the thing is, that most of us know at least one person who’s talking like that.

One of my best friends at school has said this very thing when I outed myself to him (we were both close to 40 by then). And it hurt me. A lot. It made it clear that my friend doesn’t see the life as a gay person as equally desirable than the one of a straight person. And that he is also very selfish - putting his views on life and his own hope to be a granddad before the desires and happiness of his own son.

I told him that. We had a long and very productive discussion. I don’t think that I totally changed his view on the subject, but I certainly made him think about his own position and the reasons for it.

So it was a good thing in the end. If one of his children do turn out to be gay, I hope that this discussion just might have made the difference that’ll help him accept and support him or her.

Back to the topic: I don’t think that such a person would submit stories to this website. He (or she … :blush: ) would have to write a number of unsuspicious stories to be able to ‘sneak in’ new stories which convey a subtle homophobic message.

That would require a lot of effort, a lot of self-denial (to write a number of genuinely, hot gay stories as a homophobic person) to be able to convey a message in a subtle way. which will most certainly not be appreciated by his readers.

I don’t think this scenario is very likely.

Anyway, I like this discussion with you. I hope you can live with my decision, even though you might not agree with me.

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I don’t understand the big deal at this point. The creator if the site says he will make it easy for butthurt readers to filter out content they don’t like (for me, that’s scat, rubber, drone, skinhead, and inanimate content) and that he has made it possible for others to retroactively tag content they find mislabeled.

That basically settles the issue. Block what YOU as a reader don’t want to see, leave everyone else alone. Don’t like something, don’t comment and bash it, just block it on your personal list of filters (coming soon it seems)

To each his own. Inclusive without being intrusive. Mind your own business and leave others to mind theirs.

Just STOP bashing people’s work. There’s no constructive point to doing so, beside being a Keyboard Warrior. If I went and bashed all the stories I didn’t like, whether it he grammatical issues or content, there’d be very few stories left unbashed. I ignore them, move on, and let people be! You can too!

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We have every right to make a suggestion on whether something is appropriate for this site. This isnt a generic fictiom site but one with a purpose, a theme. When stories that go against said theme a person should spesk out. To question.

Martin decided to allow said content. Fine. I disagree. But fine.

Him making that decesion doesn’t change the fact that it was fine and acceptable to ask about it.

You saying butthurt and then trying to make those who question things to be at fault is both pointless and unhelpful.

@Corin okay. Thanks for thinking on this and such. I like the keyword filter idea and might use it. Thmbs up to you for your hard work.

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Just FYI, I’m one of those butthurt readers as well! I dislike alot of the content that ends up in this and other sites. However, I try to keep my butthurt to myself. I try not to insert my butthurt into others business, when it’s best to just move on, click away and fap to something else. :slight_smile:

This whole discussion could have been avoided if readers who dislike things didn’t get all up in arms, sword at the ready. It was like the damn cavalry came charging in over nothing.

There was no pedophilia, there was no gore, or illegal content. There was nothing that would put the site, it’s owner, or it’s readers at risk. So there should have been no issue with just, moving on to the next bit of smut and letting people be.

Just because your feelings are hurt, doesn’t mean it should be banned or controlled. That makes you exactly what you’re trying to fight against. Censorship works both ways. If you want one thing banned, others want things banned too. Then it becomes a ban war, and all content suffers for it.

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Martin, my dude, you suck at your job. Please give the website to someone with a spine who actually has the best interests of gay readers at heart. Lmao. Have fun writing up a passive aggressive reply to this. :roll_eyes:

Here’s my passive aggressive answer for you:

That’s absolutely fine, have a nice life with or without this site.

A monkey could do your job better. Seriously.

Nice try :slight_smile:

^ Anyone care to argue that calling out butthurt commenters isn’t helpful?? “Guest Anonymous” seems to be the exact people I’m talking about. Anyone care to defend him? =P

@Corin
While I like your personal anecdote, I do not see how that is justification for favoritism. Essentially, your new policy (which I assume is no different than what you have been doing) is to let people you like post their stories with minimal scrutiny while new authors will have to run the gauntlet of your personal morals and integrity. Your mention of sneaking in new stories does not address the sexualization and promotion of homophobic behavior, which does not change the nature of the behavior being homophobic. Yes, you previously referenced an instance in which persistent and deep seated homophobia received a comeuppance, but that is only one story which also uses negative and hurtful stereotypes to categorize homosexuals even in the resolution. So, I guess the question is, “How much homophobia is too much homophobia?”. You’ve opened the proverbial “censorship” can of worms and need to make yourself clear. Instead of beating around the bush and trying to get by with whatever will prevent the biggest mob from hunting you down, why don’t you update your site rules? If you have the clearly defined morals you claim to please put them to writing so there is no further argument and you can be held to a standard. If Nazis are okay but repetitive use of the F word is not we need to know. Yes, this is a website dedicated to sex stories, but you are also the provider of a service and we are not only your customers but also manufacturers. Wishy washy does not keep clients.

@ JDz0J
It may not be a big deal for the people who want to hide work, but ultimately this is censorship and it is disheartening to have such hatred and censorship go on in a place where the goal should be achieving orgasm. Correct, they do not have to look at it. Correct, they do not need to comment on things they do not like. But here we stand at the crux of things and because some people complained we will now all suffer. Martin as the owner will continue to run this site to his specifications and will allow what he pleases to the extent he pleases.

“To each his own. Inclusive without being intrusive. Mind your own business and leave others to mind theirs.”

This thread was started and fueled by exclusion and hurt sensibilities. Cheer leading censorship to get people off of your back isn’t how you achieve acceptance.

“There was no pedophilia, there was no gore, or illegal content. There was nothing that would put the site, it’s owner, or it’s readers at risk.”

That’s what makes this all the more sad. Martin feels he needs to increase the amount of censorship on this site to appease everyone. I do hope that while he removes “homophobic” themed stories he also removes other highly offensive ones such as those promoting Nazism, racial purity and religion.

@Heru_Kane
You speak as though you have a lot of faith in Martin and his decisions. He reviews the stories that are posted to this site and if he feels they are inappropriate I am sure he won’t post it (or so he says). Since he is allowing these stories to be posted, clearly they are appropriate to him. Please give in to your faith, step back, and stop forcing censorship when people are just trying to get by.

Um, I think you misunderstood me… I am arguing for inclusiveness. Not censorship. However, the remedy Martin came up with in allowing READERS to personalize their feed by censoring out THEIR own dislikes, isn’t censorship. It’s a happy medium.

Butthurt readers can live in their own happy little bubble, blocking out what they don’t like on an individual scale, while others can keep on posting and reading as they please.

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That’s not a policy, it’s just what’s happening all by itself. If you have to approve a lot of stories in a limited amount of time, you tend to check what other stories the author has written, what tags he’s used and so on. Then, if you know the author, you might only scan the story and go along with it. When I find the time and I’m in the right mood (and the story matches my taste) I will spend the appropriate time to read it properly later.

I guess that’s just common sense. It’s certainly not favoritism. Especially since in all my time as the owner of this site I’ve only ever declined about 3 or 4 stories. And mostly because of the quality and formatting, not because of inappropriate contents.

I guess you realize that many, if not most stories play with stereotypes of all kinds - about homosexuals, about straight people, about muscle guys, about twinks… Do you really think I would host this site if I’d see that as a problem? Stereotypes are a problem if they’re used against a person or a group. And they’re a part of life everywhere.

In what way should I update them? And why? Like “no gay-to-straight” stories? I’ve considered that, and I came to the conclusion, that “gay-to-straight” is just one of many things on the site which has the potential to offend a group of people. If I’d ban all things that could offend someone, I can just shut down the site.

The rules are very clear. And the admin staff and myself is using them very liberally, i.e. we rather allow a story than to block it. Especially since I like to support new writers whose style might not be very refined or original. But I know from my own experience how exciting it can be to publish your first self-written texts.

I don’t know why you blame me of censorship even though I just made it very clear, that I am not going to put more bans or restrictions on the site than before. The only thing I’m going to do is to add a tags filter for the users. And that’s hardly censorship, is it?

So… which is it then? Do you plan on blocking stories that are not clear on the author’s position on homophobia? Will you require a disclaimer for potentially harmful stories? Sure, you can look at the tags a person uses but if you’re not even reading all of these stories how can you know the author’s intent? It sounds like you are in serious need of a bigger operation. Also, with so many obscenity, pornography and discrimination laws in place around the world, how do you ensure your stories are not in violation of laws outside of France?

You are correct about my use of the word favoritism. When it comes to allowing people you know to bypass quality checks and other processes put in place its not favoritism. The word I was looking for is Cronyism, the practice of partiality in awarding jobs and other advantages to friends, family relatives or trusted colleagues, especially in politics and between politicians and supportive organizations.

Is gayspiralstories.com a business or a hobby? The distinction is very important.

Please give the website to someone with a spine who actually has the best interests of gay readers at heart.

On the contrary, Martin has demonstrated a lot of spine here. He made the hard call and he’s standing up to those who would pull him down over it. How much more spine can you get?

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Sorry, I really don’t get your point and what you’re attempting to do.

Do you plan on suing me for the contents of the site? Because that’s what your text is implying.

The good thing is that most western liberal countries do not ban texts of any kind, as long as they don’t contain hate speech, instigate violence or promote child abuse. You can write about crimes, you can describe it in all detail, even the most horrific things, without getting into trouble. There are a whole number of literature sections around these themes.

That’s why it’s my firm believe that there are only very few good reasons to ban stories based on their contents. If it were just me, I wouldn’t even ban stories about kids having sex with each other - because that’s also just a fact of life. That people have such an issue with stories that describe grown people having sex with children is, in my point of view, also a bit hypocritical. I’d hate that in real life just as any other non-pedophile (and probably even most pedophiles who’d never act on their sexuality), but same is true for many many other things that happen all around us, and we still consume countless stories about these horrible things.

The important difference is always the intention of the author. If someone writes how great it is to have sex with a child, how much a child supposedly wants it, and that every child should be coerced into having sex, I would be appalled and ban not only the story but also the author, forever.

Do you see the difference? The intentions and motivation of the author makes all the difference.

So, to wrap it up, if I ban a story, legal issues are the least important issue. Other than hate speech, instigation of violence, and promotion of child abuse, there’s very little that is really legally relevant.

What is relevant is my own moral compass and my own taste. And, as I’ve said too many times now, it’s quite hard to cross that border.

So there is really little danger of me banning a story unless it’s really clear that the person wants to offend people (with homophobic subtext) or wants to use his story to spread hate or violence.